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Hungarian Weapons - Frommer Stop Pistols |
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275,000 Manufactured by Fegyver es Gepgyar Reszvenytarsasag, Budapest, 1912-18. ('Fegyvergyar' or 'F.G.GY.') 90,000 Manufactured by Femaru Fegyver es Gepgyar Reszvenytarsasag, Budapest, 1919-29. ('Fegyvergyar' or 'Femaru Fegyver es Gepgyar') Type: recoil operated automatic pistol Chambering: 7.65mm Frommer (=.32acp loaded hot), 9mm (.380acp), 9mm Short Length overall: 6.5" (165mm) Weight unloaded: 21.5oz (610g) Barrel: 3.94" (100mm) rifled, 4 grooves, rh Muzzle velocity: 920 fps (7.65mm)
This design appeared in 1912 and was adopted by the Honvedseg, (NOT 'Honved'),
the Hungarian element of the Austro-Hungarian Army. It's designation was
'Frommer Stop', it had no model number. The international word 'Stop' meant
'to stop' the target. During WW1 the Frommer Stop was also
sold to Germany, Bulgaria and Turkey |
The Frommer Stop was a fresh approach to long recoil operation, the vital
feature being a double spring system lying in a tunnel above the barrel. One
spring controls the movement of the bolt, while its companion absorbs the
barrel recoil and returns the barrel to the firing position. This two-spring
system is implicit in any long recoil mechanism where barrel and bolt move
independently. The springs surrounded the barrel and bolt in the 1901 Frommer
design, but placing them in the 1910-type tunnel (though complicating
maintenance) made the gun much more compact. At the instant of firing, the Stop
is locked by a rotating head on the two-piece bolt, similarly to the
M95 Mannlicher rifles. An inertia firing pin is
struck by an external hammer, and the only safety device is a grip lever.
Barrel and bolt then recoil for about an inch to unlock the bolt. The bolt is
then held while the barrel runs back, stripping out and ejecting the empty
case as it does so. The bolt is then released to run forward, chamber the fresh
round, and rotate its head to lock the breech.
It is a functional, but complicated design, required above average maintenance
and was reportedly not popular with some of its users. However, with proper care
the pistols' long service life proved its critics wrong and most people loved them.
Critics saying 'The complication of a long recoil system is wasted on a
relatively low-powered cartridge which can be handled by a simple blowback
action' should check out the following section.
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Original service pistols mostly chambered the 7.65mm Frommer cartridge (same
dimensions as the .32acp, but loaded hot), some chambered the more powerful 9mm
(.380acp). Note: The pistol was designed for the 'hotter', more powerful 7.65mm
Frommer cartridge, so using standard .32acp is safe, but it may not result
in a perfect operation. During the years popularity of the .32acp combined with
the difficuties obtaining the 7.65 Frommer cartridge lead to the common use of
the .32acp in these pistols. This is the reason the use of .32acp 'stuck' with
this pistol. It is also likely, that the exported 7.65 Frommers were commercially
marketed as .32acp. Some reports indicate, that similarly to the 7.65 Frommer,
the original 9mm Frommer was also a 'hot loaded' version of the .380 acp cartridge
OG's website on Hungarian pistoles shows a picture of an original crimped jacketed proprietary Frommer cartridge. 7-round detachable box magazine shown on the left. Original mags stamped '7.65 FROMMER' |
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Commercial proofs: St.Steven's crown above the letters 'BP', enclosed in a circle, located on the left side of the trigger guard. |
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The pistols bear an official acceptance mark on the left front side of the trigger guard: 'Bp' (for Budapest), followed by the Austro-Hungarian or Hungarian crest and the last two figures of the year of manufacture. The picture on the left shows the Austrian Eagle between 'Bp' and the Date |
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This photo shows the acceptance mark of the post-WW1 independent Hungarian Army on the left front side of the trigger guard: 'Bp' (for Budapest), followed by St.Steven's crest and the last two characters are the year of manufacture. |
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The circled 'A' is believed to be a post-WW1 independent Austrian mark. The serial number of the pistol indicates a cca.1926 Budapest manufacture. This pistol appears to be sold to or traded to Austria. The official use of this pistol and the meaning of the circled A are unknown. |
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The early mfg hard rubber grips shown on the far left and the later mfg serrated wood grips shown on the near left, both marked 'FS' |
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SERIAL NUMBERING: All Frommers are sequentially serialized, started with Model 1901 and continued through all Stop model changes. Due to lack of available data, these are estimated approximate dates and serial numbers: 1910 - 1000-3000 1911 - 3000-6000 1912 - 6000-12000 1913 - 12000-18000 1914 - 18000-30000 1915 - 30000-55000 (Lw15: 48128) 1916 - 55000-116000 (109101 9mm) 1917 - 116000-208050 (156750-208034) 1918 - 208050-275000 (253333-253601) 1919 - 275000-275000 1920 - 275000-300000 1921 - 300000-327000(326857) 1922 - 327000-335000 1923 - 335000-340000 1924 - 340000-345000 1925 - 345000-350000 1926 - 350000-355000 (351617 nodate A-marked) 1927 - 355000-360000 1928 - 360000-363000 1929 - 363000-364000Please, send us your Frommer Stop serial number data, so we can correct these serial number ranges. |
Left side markings: FEGYVERGYAR - BUDAPEST - FROMMER - PAT. STOP CAL.7.65m/m (.32)
Left side markings: FEGYVERGYAR - BUDAPEST - FROMMER - PAT. STOP CAL.9m/m (.380)
The pistol was also offered commercially in 9mm Short (.380 acp) after 1919, but these lack official markings. The Frommer Stop remained in production until about 1929, and is still relatively common in Central Europe. A 9mm (.380 acp) variant called '39M' was reportedly made for special export order.
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A number of pistols were sold to Germany in 1916-17, between serial numbers
56,000-94,000. These pistols were acceptance marked with a crown over 'D'. WARNING: A few Frommer Stops were stamped with fake Nazi marks (WaffenAmt WaA63). [The WaA63 should be on Mauser K98k rifles.] None of these pistols were Nazi stamped originally. Check out the correct WaffenAmts Codes |
Frommer Stop Field Stripping:
Empty the chamber. Pull out the magazine. Press in the barrel nut retainer (use
the corner of the magazine) and unscrew the barrel nut. Release pressure on the
retainer and barrel guide and remove them. Remove recoil spring.
Use slotted top of the barrel guide tool: Fit slot over cross lug at end of
recoil spring guide. Push guide rearward, and rotate 90deg. Cock hammer and
pull bolt body out to rear. Rotate bolthead clockwise to separate from body.
Rotate recoil spring guide using the barrel guide an additional 90deg to
release it from the frame. Push barrel rearward to remove from the frame.
Field stripping completed.
For further disassembly, use a small screwdriver to flex ejector spring outward
slightly. Crasp spring with a tweezers and slide out rearward; then remove
ejector. Unscrew grip screw and remove grips. Lower hammer. Drive out hammer pin
to release hammer with its plunger and spring. Remove grip safety, spring and
lanyard loop by driving out the grip safety pin. Drive out magazine catch pin to
free the catch. Bolt catch and trigger with trigger bar can now be removed by
driving out pins. Both disconnector pin and sear pin must be driven out to
detach sear. Remove these parts only where necessary, as sear and trigger
springs are difficult to reinsert. Bolt head is staked on both sides of
extractor. The mushroomed edges must be filed down to disassemble these parts
and the bolt head restaked on assembly. This should not be attempted without
good cause. Reassemble in reverse. Depress bolt catch with tip of recoil spring
guide when inserting barr& so that catch clears barrel threads. Bolt head must
be turned so that its smaller locking lug aligns with rib on bolt body and
groove in barrel extension when these parts are reassembled.
Frommer Stop Assembly Drawing and Parts List